IN AN interview recently, former finance minister Daim Zainuddin entered into a full and frank exchange about his views of current national politics.

Q. You played a key role in helping Dr Mahathir Mohamad in GE14 to bring about a change that many people wanted. Fight against corruption was the main battle cry. With the coup that took place resulting in PH falling, where is Malaysia headed now?

I did not play a key role in helping Dr Mahathir during GE14. I played the same role as the masses who wanted a change of government due to the blatant corruption and plundering of the country’s coffers happening at that time.

I came out of retirement to lend support before and during the elections.

I don’t know where Malaysia is heading now. This new government had taken over the Pakatan Harapan (PH) government through political manoeuvring. It has not proven itself yet, partly because it had to operate within the Covid-19 threat soon after taking over. That will certainly make the tasks for this government very daunting.

As it is, the government has not yet revealed its plans to make Malaysia a better place for all Malaysians nor any plans for that matter. They have no manifesto for Malaysians to judge their promises against. They have issued no platform on which they stand. So, we really have no idea what this government will or will not do.

They have to work as a team, make a concerted approach and plan for the future, and then communicate how they can solve the problems of the rakyat.

There are too many problems and under the present circumstances it is not easy to solve them unless the government has a competent team to lead and find solutions.

You want to be the government and now that you are, you have to solve the rakyat’s problems.

Q. It is no secret that the whole conspiracy to make PH fall was inspired by racism and religious bigotry. This sentiment appears to be gaining ground among the young Malaysians. The fight against corruption seems to have taken a back seat.

I may have to correct this sentence. The PH fall was not due to a conspiracy that had its fundamentals in racism and religious bigotry although it was a convenient war cry.

The takeover was mainly caused by the need of certain political personalities to take control of power for personal reasons, but this is politics. Race and religion were used to justify their actions because these were convenient narratives. Throughout the world, we are witnessing the same mentality being used to wield political power – driving the majority to fear minority groups and then blame them for any troubles that arise.

This is nothing new; we have seen throughout history the use of bigotry, xenophobia, demagoguery and racial stereotyping. What I fear is if more people subscribe to extremist views or if it becomes state sponsored to embolden extremists and their world views, where it normalises racism and bigotry.

However, I have more faith in our young people. I don’t believe that this sentiment is widespread among our young. They have the world at their finger tips and they can see the effects of racism such as what is happening in the US now.

I believe Malaysian youths as well as the population at large are very sensible, like to live peacefully and are now more worried about the implications brought about by Covid-19, which has forced them into facing a very uncertain and scary future. But certainly, the lack of plans, programmes and initiatives from the government is heightening this fear and insecurity.

You must also understand that the PH government was besieged from the onset by racist and religious attacks from the then opposition. Race and religion are powerful and emotional tools, and the opposition – bereft of ideas, policies and constructive criticisms – then used both race and religion in a most toxic manner. Given the fragility of the PH coalition and even the PM’s position at the time, these continuous attacks were bound to have some effect.

However, I don’t think that you can use race and religion for long in place of economic and social policies. After a while people want to know the government’s plans as to how they can put food on the table, a roof over their heads, educate their children and take care of their future.

Q. Race relations have taken several hard knocks with the current political manoeuvres. PN seems to be using DAP as a front to hit out at the Chinese.

I think you may be wrong here. PN is hitting out at DAP to win support from the Malays who may swallow their rhetoric. They are not using DAP to hit out at the Chinese.

This has been the modus operandi of PAS and Umno ever since the PH won in the last election. Race and religion are very emotive issues and time and again, these parties will use these issues to secure their support among the Malay community. Their tactics can only be rendered ineffective if and when the Malays themselves realise that nobody can undermine their positions except they themselves.

To combat problems where races are pitted against each other for political expediency, and political and economic status quo, our future should be based on an education system that should teach the young of the Malaysian consciousness, to act and behave as Malaysians, and to get to know the various cultures and celebrate them together, so that Malaysians understand each other.

I know this may sound like a small thing but I feel that all schools in Malaysia must start the classes with Negaraku, not as morning assembly, but in each class. And at the end of the school day, sing a patriotic song like Tanah Pusaka to instil love and loyalty to the country.

We need an education that encourages them to think logically, to compete and to be confident of themselves. Our education system should fight against ignorance, parochialism, intolerance. Good morals, ethics and values embedded in a good sound education, together with government policies that create employment for the rakyat with a good income, then it will surely diminish the politics of race over time. When everyone is doing well, then you will not look at your neighbour and think he is taking away opportunities from you.

It may seem that race relations are suffering because those who scream and shout get a lot of publicity and media play.

However, at grassroots level, I believe race relations are still at a healthy level. More so during this Covid-19 period when we have seen Malaysians come together to help each other irrespective of race or religion.

It is at top-level politics where leaders seem to play race politics, which is very unhealthy and divisive. Racial politics will not bring peace and stability. It will affect economic growth and investors will shy away from Malaysia, and that will be bad for all of us.

Q. Is this the beginning of a government that will eventually move towards theocracy?

Whether this government moves towards theocracy is really a matter for the rakyat to decide. They decide their own future, but are Malaysians ignorant enough not to see what is happening in places ruled by politicians speaking in the name of religion? Would they want the same here?

Do not be silent if you are not happy with something. Speak up and voice your dissatisfaction. Even in the recent policy announcements, we have seen fairly immediate changes when the rakyat voice their dissatisfaction.

It may be tiring, but we must continue to speak up on things that we believe are going wrong in our country. Its not good enough to disagree but keep quiet. Being silent is being complicit. After all, the politicians should serve the rakyat, not the other way around.

In the Riza Aziz case for instance, we can either speak up and voice our disapproval of the deal, and demand the authorities do better or we just stay silent. By staying silent we are essentially telling the authorities and the political leaders that they can do as they please, even when the rakyat’s money is being stolen. Malaysians deserve better.

So speak up.

Q. Do you consider the current government as legitimate and one that can last till GE15 and beyond?

This is not the government that was voted in during GE14.

This means that the rakyat’s mandate is not being fulfilled or honoured. The fact remains that the people voted in a PH government in May 2018. The current government in power at the moment is not the one voted in by the rakyat.

They are in power because of political manoeuvring, not because of the rakyat’s voice. The PM acknowledged this in his speech last month.

It is anybody’s guess whether or not they will last till GE15 and beyond. Did you think the PH government would last till GE15?

However, the strength of any government lies in the people’s support. To attain this, the focus of programmes must be aimed at uplifting the wellbeing of the people. Always remember to serve the people judiciously and honestly, and they will always remember you when you need their support.

Q. Many say that Bersatu will be wiped out in the next elections by Muafakat Nasional. What do you think?

If the party remains as it is now – divided down the middle – then of course it will… ‘A house divided against itself cannot stand’. The party elections are scheduled later this year. So far, there has not been any move to defer these elections. Whether Bersatu survives – not just the next election but even the next year – will depend on just how divided, or united, the party is after its internal elections.

Q. How do you see an Anwar Ibrahim-led PH faring in the next elections? Some Malaysians are saying that it is time for senior politicians like Dr Mahathir, Anwar and Lim Kit Siang to retire, and make way for a completely new politics for Malaysia. Can this happen?

There could be many variables and permutations before the next general election comes around. We have seen this happening already in the past two years.

I have retired and I think many politicians should follow my example (laugh). Seriously, as to whether senior politicians should retire, well that is up to them and their party members to decide. I’m not a believer in that every leader is indispensable. The reality of life is that the graveyard is full of indispensable people. To me leaders come and go. What is important is what are the policies of that leader – his or her policies remain, or at the very least the effects and consequences of the policies remain, long after when the leader is gone. For good or bad, you leave behind your policies for the nation and history to judge.

So, what are your policies and where do you stand on education, economic benefits, social justice, fighting inequality, clean and incorruptible government, respect for the constitution, the rule of law, and the separation of powers? This is what the rakyat wants for now and the future, and they want to know what the leadership stands for.

Politics should be about ideas, not personalities, and how to win the minds and hearts of the rakyat. Policies must be right. As I said earlier, Leaders come and go.

Leaders must always remember that they are there to serve the rakyat. If they are no longer able to serve the rakyat, then they should leave. If there are other leaders who are more capable of serving the rakyat and who are more dedicated in serving the rakyat, then they should be given a chance to lead. If there are leaders who have wisdom, and leadership qualities, not from a sense of entitlement, but of the ability to lead, then they should be given a chance.

We need a new political order for Malaysia.

Q. Who do you think are the young leaders of today who can bring about a vibrant new political scene that will be mature and clean? Do you have any hope of this in the first place?

I am very hopeful of the future. I love talking to young people. They are enthusiastic, idealistic and full of ideas and we should listen to them.

What is needed are dedicated leaders who are clean, capable, knowledgeable with an understanding of history, both local as well world history. I cannot emphasise enough the value of knowing history. It has been said before that those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it and those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat it.

Age is not the main factor. Any leader – young or old – who is tainted, either because of corruption or scandals, should not hold office. Age is not the only factor in determining whether or not someone will be a good leader. But the younger generation of course would welcome leaders who are resourceful, progressive, committed and principled.

These may even consist of the younger generation themselves.

Whether or not the younger generation is able to lead is very much dependent on how we bring up our children. I am not just talking about the education system. I am also talking about the moral and religious values that we inculcate in our young. We are talking about a revamp and a total overhaul of our education system, of our religious system, of our values system, so that we can produce a younger generation capable of leading the nation into a better future.

We have seen some of our young Malaysians that were educated in the best universities in the world but lack moral values; so many of them, whether in politics, business, or government bodies, were willing to work with kleptocrats.

Education without the right moral values is to have a body without a soul. Good values, morals, and ethics are the foundation of a society; it is important, it is fundamental.

Q. Do your see Najib Razak and Ahmad Zahid Hamidi coming back to power through Muafakat Nasional (MN)? They seem to be pushing for a snap election, which can only mean that they will break away from Bersatu, keeping MCA and MIC as the token non-Malay reps.

First, let me say that it is entirely up to MCA and MIC if they wish to be token non-Malay reps as you label them. They have a choice.

Are Najib and Zahid coming back to power? Well, Umno is the largest block in MN, and Zahid is the president of Umno. Najib is still in Umno. Even some Bersatu ministers are complaining that it is Umno that runs Putrajaya now. But, you should not underestimate the wisdom of the people. They know a lot about these two men. They are in the public knowledge. They knew at the last election what they wanted and who they wanted in and who they wanted out. People are not stupid.

Q. The unprecedented out-of-court settlement of Reza’s money-laundering case shocked many Malaysians, including Dr Mahathir. How did you take this?

Of course people are angry. He did not offer any additional repayment – all those properties had already been seized and would have been returned to Malaysia anyway.

Furthermore, the sum they are bandying about is what those properties are valued at. It does not mean that is the amount they will be auctioned off. People would like to know why he is not in prison, and why he is being allowed to keep more than half of the money he is accused of having stolen. The rakyat wants to know why when you steal Milo you go to prison, but when you steal billions you walk away smiling?

The rakyat thinks it is a really good deal for him – he does not have to spend any time behind bars and he is allowed to keep more than RM500 million of stolen money.

But what about the media? Have you reported and spoken out about the issue? Have you highlighted and held accountable the injustice of this settlement?

Q. With this, do you see other high-profile corruption and money-laundering involving Najib, Zahid, Tengku Adnan Tengku Mansor and Abdul Azeez Abdul Rahim going this way too?

These cases are all still being heard in court. We should let the legal process take its due course. Nonetheless, the groundswell is already voicing their concerns and MPs are questioning this settlement. The Prime Minister’s Office has also come out with a statement on this subject.

Q. How has Muhyiddin Yassin performed as prime minister so far? Has there been any litmus test?

It is too soon to tell of his performance. He also came to power at a time where multiple disasters were happening, especially Covid-19 and its repercussions.

During this calamity, the present government cannot be functioning in its normal run-of-the-mill manner – the current health and economic crises require the government to do far more than a government would have to do under normal circumstances. The government cannot remain sclerotic.

It has to hit the ground running soon after taking over. Now, they need to formulate crisis management plans for the economic, social, rural and communications sectors during and post Covid-19. The respective ministries have to engage experts to look at new areas of resources and how to minimise the impact of the virus on certain sectors that need immediate attention.

However, so far, the government has done little apart from almost exclusively consolidating its political hold via handouts of positions. At the same time the rakyat feels that the old style of government using agencies to stop the rakyat from expressing their views and curtailing their freedom of expression are back. The rakyat wants to express their views, and expects the government to reply and have a healthy debate. The era of government know best is over.

If they fail to address the present crisis and its repercussions, the people will continue to make known their feelings, which will only get louder. And if that falls on deaf ears, the rakyat will not be scared to show the government the door in GE15. The rakyat know their rights. They exercised them in GE14.

Even now we can already hear the uneasiness of the rakyat when the government postponed the announcement of RMK12 from this August to next year. That gives the perception that the government is clueless right now. With so much attention given to politics, so many U-turns and unclear guidelines given during this movement control order (MCO) period, the rakyat is questioning the focus and priority of the Perikatan Nasional (PN) leadership and its cabinet, and more importantly, its competency.

Q. One of the first political manoeuvres Muhyiddin performed was appointing MPs as GLC heads quite blatantly to get their support in return. He even appointed tainted politicians in the process. Would this have an adverse repercussion on the ruling party?

People read these appointments as a means to win support and therefore conclude that he is not sure of his own support to begin with.

He allowed people to interpret that he did not have the support and needed to resort to rewarding them. The recent audio of him trying to entice Umno MPs with GLC chairmanship also did not do him any favours.

Compromising the GLCs and GLICs for politics is something that I view very seriously. Even during the PH government’s time, there were also cases like this despite having made election promises that such a practice would stop.

So, PH too isn’t exactly innocent here either, although it was not as rampant nor as irresponsible.

To a very large extent, and to their credit, they removed many politicians from various entities and managed to put capable professionals at the GLCs. No listed entities had politicians as chairman or CEOs.

For politicians offered the posts, they must ask themselves whether they are capable of performing and whether this offer is morally correct. Where is your conscience, sadly a word not much used today.

This false sense of entitlement – believing that one deserves the position simply because one is a politician – must not be tolerated by any political party.

The rakyat has every right to be upset. You have to put the most qualified people in the right positions, more so, when the company you are heading is entrusted in handling the rakyat’s money. Abusing that trust is the greatest sin and those who speak in the name of religion should advise their colleagues accordingly. The Election Commission should also clarify whether these appointments fall under the definition of office for profit. – June 21, 2020.

* Daim Zainuddin is a former politician and businessman, and was finance minister from 1984 to 1991.

* This is the opinion of the writer or publication and does not necessarily represent the views of The Malaysian Insight. Article may be edited for brevity and clarity.