October 27 marks the 30th anniversary of  Operasi Lalang, where 106 people were detained without trial and the publishing licences of three newspapers were revoked. The episode remains a grim reminder of what can happen in the absence of check and balances, a deep scar in the Malaysian psyche. To mark this day, The Malaysian Insight speaks to those involved in the dragnet – the victims and their families, detention centre wardens and police.

WHEN Lim Guan Eng was detained without trial between October 1987 and April 1989, he was in his mid-20s.

He was one of 106 politicians, activists, intellectuals, students, artists and others arrested under Ops Lalang, a police crackdown supposedly carried out to prevent racial riots in the country.

Thirty years on, Lim, 54, has gone on to become DAP secretary-general, Penang chief minister, and deputy president of the Pakatan Harapan opposition coalition chaired by Dr Mahathir Mohamad – the very man who was prime minister when he was detained under the now repealed Internal Security Act.

He said the 18-month detention under ISA was a “harrowing experience”, adding that he still feels the pain. But he said the past should be left in the past.

“I was a victim. I still feel the pain today. But are we going to allow our personal suffering, need for personal vengeance to overcome the larger requirement to save the country?” Lim told The Malaysian Insight.

“What has passed has passed. We cannot bring it back.”

Still, Lim recalls his experience as a “terrible” one and is not interested in soft-pedalling the distressing impact it had on the detainees and their loved ones.

He spent 60 days in solitary confinement and remembers that from his cell, he could hear children playing in the playground, laughing and enjoying themselves.

“It was unreal. Here you are denied your freedom, but you can hear the laughter of kids outside. It was very surreal. 

“The way they interrogated you, the way they played the good-guy, bad-guy routine, how they wanted you to confess to something you didn’t do, to confess that you did something wrong.

“They tortured me by denying me sleep for 48 hours. I lost my cool, had a physical breakdown. I got sick, so they were quite worried that I would die.

“I was put in a blue room at the detention centre for the interrogation. The whole room was blue, the ceiling, the walls and the floor, too. The huge fan was blue and it had huge hooks at the end.

“I asked why the fan had hooks. They said it was there to hang me up there… I didn’t know if they were joking or not.

“I was put in a chair and a light shone on me. I was so tired. They would shout into my ear to wake me up if I dozed off. Finally, at the end of the ordeal, I could not take it any more. 

“I pointed my finger at the officer, and said: ‘You want to beat, then beat me lah. Got no guts or b****?’ I challenged him to beat me. He wanted to but stopped himself in time. I collapsed after that.

“That’s what happens when you have a dictatorship, when you have oppressive powers,” Lim said.

Below are excerpts from the interview:

TMI: What was it like in detention, and what did you all do inside?

Lim: Survive. It was difficult, you know. We interacted, cooked, read, understood each other from different perspectives, talked about our different views on democracy and freedom.‎

Mat Sabu was always a PAS fella, he never left PAS. PAS left him. PAS supported democracy, freedom, tolerance then.

TMI: Would you say your meeting with Mat Sabu (Mohamad Sabu) in Kamunting opened up opportunity for PAS and DAP to cooperate?

Lim: It wasn’t just my meeting with Mat Sabu in Kamunting. He also met (my father Lim) Kit Siang and Karpal Singh. That was where he came to know Kit Siang and Karpal, not just me.

But we were closer of age, so we became good friends. The other two were older, a generation older. We could talk and joke. We shared the same interests. We both had growing families.

We also looked after each other’s families. When I was cast into the political wilderness, he came to see me regularly. It was a very different type of experience during the time.

TMI: Can you describe your memories of Kamunting?

Lim: They were sad, sometimes painful but the detention for 18 months strengthened my resolve. 

It also allowed me to know Mat Sabu and some of the others.

So, when the time came for us to get together, we already knew each other. So that made it easier to build trust.

Confidence-building measures are most difficult. Before working together, there must be trust and that takes time to work out.

Khalid Samad (Shah Alam MP) and Mahfuz Omar (Pokok Sena MP) were there, too. Up until now, we are still good friends, still together… that bond forged is very hard to break. 

Mahfuz is still our friend.

TMI: But all that happened to you when Dr Mahathir Mohamad was prime minister. He is now your Pakatan Harapan chairman.

Lim: True. That’s why he said this “There are things I have done that you disagreed with. But let’s do this first, and if you think action will be required, I am willing to be called to account.”

He said that during the Otai Reformasi when he went and was booed.

He said “Whatever I had done, I never had US$1 billion in my personal bank account. Malaysia was never called a global kleptocracy. We never had GST (goods and services tax) and the ringgit never fell to such low levels.”

It’s true. People never felt such pain as they do now.

TMI: But you suffered directly when you were detained under ISA during his time.

Lim: I was a victim. I still feel the pain today. But are we going to allow our personal suffering, need for personal vengeance to overcome the larger requirement to save the country? What has passed has passed. We cannot bring it back.

But you must make sure the past does not reclaim the future. Some say the future is a prologue. Let us make sure that the past is not a prologue for the future.

The present administration has to be replaced. It’s the largest kleptocracy in the world. If they get away with it, it is opening the floodgates… it’s saying that anybody can get away with it, go unpunished. Can you believe it?

Sometimes you need a dictator to overthrow a dictator. It’s not what we want but under the circumstances, he would be constrained by the structure. In PH, all parties are equal, no single one is dominant. Everyone starts on equal basis. We work by consensus. Dr Mahathir agrees.

TMI: What have we learned from Ops Lalang?

Lim: We must not back down or give up.

TMI: Do you have any fear that something like ISA will return?

Lim: Yup. Now we have Sosma (Security Offences [Special Measures] Act 2012) used against opposition politicians. That’s why we have to continue to be vigilant. Eternal vigilance is the price we have to pay for freedom.

In order to dismantle the architecture of the enemy state, you need to ensure genuine democracy, to establish rule of law, and remove not just an autocracy but also a kleptocracy. A kleptocracy is also dangerous. – October 25, 2017.